Ambassador Karl Eikenberry
U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan
Interview - Tolo TV
October 27, 2009
Tolo TV: Thank you very much for your time, Mr. Ambassador.
Ambassador Eikenberry: Welcome to my residence here at the United States Embassy. It’s always good to be with Tolo TV.
Tolo TV: Thank you very much.
My first question is, on 7 November you will have the second round of the elections. Mr. Karzai has interviewed with CNN and with the Afghan media and has mentioned that he accepts the runoff not because of the widespread fraud, but only for the sake of the country, for the betterment of the country, and because of the international pressure. What’s your viewpoint on this?
Ambassador Eikenberry: I think that President Karzai made a very courageous decision, a very historic decision for Afghanistan. President Karzai, as candidate Karzai, had to address his supporters. Many of those supporters believe that President Karzai achieved over 50 percent of the votes. That is their belief.
The election finding was that he had under 50 percent of the votes. No one questioned he had the most votes, but under the rules, under the constitution of Afghanistan, a candidate has to have over 50 percent of the votes. So he was presented then with the challenge of addressing his supporters, but also having to consider the long-term interest of the state of Afghanistan, the long term interest of developing democratic institutions and processes in Afghanistan. So in the end President Karzai made the decision to move forward with the second round, and I think it was a very great decision for the future of Afghanistan’s democracy.
Tolo TV: According to the foreign media or some Afghan media, Karzai accepted this because of the foreign pressure. Even Karzai himself mentioned to CNN that some friendly countries also put pressure on him to accept the runoff. Because, according to the constitution, the election law, if one of the candidates did not receive 50 [percent] plus 1 votes, then the election will go to a second round. But some people think, even Karzai people think, that Karzai accepted because of the international pressure, not according to the law.
Ambassador Eikenberry: Kakar, I know that President Karzai had many consultations before he reached his decision. He talked to his cabinet, he talked to his supporters. Indeed, he did talk to the international community. But at the end of the day the choice was very much President Karzai’s and, once again, I applaud him and the leaders of the world and I believe that many Afghan leaders and people applauded him for a difficult choice.
Tolo TV: Also people think the presence of Senator John Kerry, Kai Eide, yourself, and the UK and France ambassadors, was a source of the pressure on him. Even on the day that he announced that he will accept the runoff, a lot of people think psychologically he did not look good, and there was sort of pressure on him.
So according to some Karzai supporters, Karzai accept the runoff because of that pressure -- not because of Electoral Campaign Commission found some evidence of the fraud and then the Electoral Campaign Commission reduced Karzai votes from 54 percent to 49 percent.
Ambassador Eikenberry: Kakar, again, I think that President Karzai, he had many considerations in making his decision, of course. He had considerations from his supporters. He had considerations about the long term benefits to the state. He had considerations about the people of Afghanistan. There were many consultations that took place. Ultimately, though, President Karzai, of course, he made his own choices.
Tolo TV: Also people think in Afghanistan, his supporters or Mr. Karzai himself commited fraud that affected more than 900,000 votes. So according to the constitution, he should be arrested, rather than eligible for a second round election.
Ambassador Eikenberry: No, there is no nothing in the constitution at all that --
Tolo TV: Because fraud is a crime. If somebody -- it’s a crime, 900,000 votes.
Ambassador Eikenberry: I think it’s important, Kakar, to consider this the first election run by Afghanistan, the first presidential and provincial council election run by Afghanistan. It’s necessary to get a context for this.
First of all, the preparations for the election, they began rather late. Truly, the preparations for the election should have begun last year. There’s some international responsibility here as well. There’s United Nations responsibility. There’s national responsibility. There’s Afghan responsibility. But the preparations for the election did not begin soon enough.
This election took place in conditions of insecurity in some areas. What’s interesting when you look at the results of the election in places like Kabul and Herat and Mazar-e-Sharif, where there’s excellent security, the election was extraordinarily well run. There wasn’t much difference between the opinions of candidate parties about what the results were.
But there are areas of insecurity in Afghanistan right now. There are logistics challenges. And of course there were irregularities as well. There’s a larger context for this election that needs to be considered.
The United States of America, in our history, our very worst election in terms of procedures being followed accurately took place in 1864. In 1864 the United States was in the middle of our Civil War. That was our worst election in history. But to the pride of the American people, we passed through that election as well with the procedures and our rule of law and the constitution in place.
Tolo TV: Right off Mr. Karzai set some conditions for going to the second round of the election. He wanted the removal of three positions, the head of the election commission. Also today in his press conference Dr. Abdullah asked of the government that some government officials -- like Minister of Interior -- that their jobs should be on hold until the elections is held. So what would be the U.S. thoughts on this issue?
Ambassador Eikenberry: The nation of Afghanistan, the people of Afghanistan, they’ve come enormously far over the past three months. A historic decision reached a week ago now to proceed with a second round. So much has been accomplished. Now the date’s set for 7 November for the second round. A date and a process -- an election that the United States of America, the United Nations, the international community is absolutely in full support of. We’re determined to get the best outcome possible, and that set the conditions for election day.
What I’d say is it’s important at this point in time, as far as we’ve come, for candidates not to run against the process -- not to run against the process. Run for the election itself.
Now at the same time, of course, there have got to be reasonable standards that are being applied to this election. There were some lessons learned from the first round of the election. Some of those can be applied to make a better second round. But I would urge that people don’t try to run against the process.
Tolo TV: So with Dr. Abdullah --
Ambassador Eikenberry: I’m not aware of Dr. Abdullah’s statements. I’m simply saying it’s two principles right now. Standards; but don’t run against the process.
Tolo TV: Mr. Ambassador, are you concerned that Mr. Karzai is a reliable friend for the United States government?
Ambassador Eikenberry: The Afghan people, the Afghan government, of course they’re partners of the United States of America, partners with the international community. I would say, Kakar, right now that all of us in the international community, and very specifically the United States of America, we’re eager now to get the results from this second round of the election and we’re looking forward to close partnership with the next administration of Afghanistan. We think we have a very positive agenda with our Afghan allies, together with the international community. We’re eager to see a conclusion now of the second round and move forward.
Tolo TV: If Mr. Karzai wins the second round of the election, what would be the relationship between the U.S. and Mr. Karzai? Because some people think that really the relation right now is a little bit damaged between the U.S. government and Mr. Karzai.
Ambassador Eikenberry: We see a very close relationship with the United States and the next administration of Afghanistan. Our common interests at this point in time have never been clearer. When we look ahead to the next five years with the next administration of Afghanistan we see converging interests, more so than maybe at any time since 2002. We see converging interests in stronger efforts on both our Afghan allies and the United States of America, NATO, the international community, to make strong efforts to really strengthen Afghanistan and so that Afghanistan’s sovereignty is really in the hands of the Afghan people and the Afghan government. We see programs to more effectively develop the Afghan National Army, the Afghan National Police, so that they everywhere they will be able to provide 100 percent of the security for the Afghan people.
We see common interests in the area, for instance of detention. The United States of America is looking forward to a partner over the next several years. We’re going to find ways so that the United States will not have to be responsible for the detention of Afghan civilians. That’s an Afghan government responsibility.
We can see ways as we move forward so that as the next administration of Afghanistan develops programs for reconciliation, reintegration. The United States, indeed all of our allies, are really willing to provide full support for whatever the programs are of the next Afghan government, for the Afghan people to pursue reintegration. We can name many different areas right now where we can see really clear common interests. We’re optimistic about the next five years here in Afghanistan.
I’d like to just say to all the Afghan people, the United States of America remains committed to Afghanistan’s success.
Tolo TV: Mr. Hamid Karzai during his interview with CNN seriously questioned whether the United States a good ally of the Afghan people or Afghanistan. Also the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, in her interview she mentioned that the U.S. government will ask Mr. Karzai to do more.
Can you explain to our audience, what do you want specifically from Mr. Karzai?
Ambassador Eikenberry: I’ll come back to what I said, Kakar, about common interests. We have converging interests. Our starting point is always that the success of the people of Afghanistan, the success of the government of Afghanistan. The success of the Afghan people is our success as well.
So rather than talking specifics about programs, what I would say is in broad outlines right now, what we’re hoping to achieve with our Afghan friends, with the Afghan people over the next five years. If I can look ahead five years from now, it would be to a state in which we’ve reached a point in which, in terms of sovereignty, the Afghan Army -- 240,000 strong -- and the Afghan Police -- 160,000 strong -- are providing 100 percent of security for Afghanistan. International military forces, U.S. forces, are still here providing assistance, training and equipment, special capabilities for the Afghan National Security Forces. I would see five years from now where there are no detention operations by international forces. It’s 100 percent Afghan responsibility.
Afghanistan understands and has its relationships established so that its security within the region is more well-defined than it is right now. Programs that move forward and have success with reconciliation, with reintegration. Partnership programs,so that the government of Afghanistan, working in collaboration with the international community -- we work together to help achieve more accountability within government systems, reduce corruption. All emphasizing that the international community has a responsibility as well in addressing some of our shortcomings in our developmental programs. And finally in the area of the economy, I can see five years from now, Kakar, where much more capability exists within the key ministries of Afghanistan. We have more prosperity, more employment throughout the country. And Afghanistan is continuing to move along a path where it has much more control over its own sovereignty. Importantly, as well, its economy is starting to move in a direction where it has the prospects in the years ahead of sustainability.
Tolo TV: Mr. Ambassador, some people think that the U.S. government wants to put pressure on Karzai to have a coalition government with Mr. Abdullah. Is that true?
Ambassador Eikenberry: Absolutely not. Let me say here, Kakar, that with this first round of elections and the second round that’s proceeding right now, what America has emphasized with our partners steadily is commitment to the rule of law. The rule of law is everything. Rules sometimes are hard to interpret. The referees who are on the playing field, sometimes people disagree with the judgments. The commitment to rule is what separates -- right now Afghanistan in 2009, as difficult as this election process has been -- it’s what separates Afghanistan here in 2009 from the Afghanistan of 1992.
The Afghanistan of 1992: no rules, just people sitting behind closed doors trying to figure out ways to divide power among them. It was the rule of gun, it was not the rule of law.
Now, coalition governments, that goes back to the era of 1992 in which people without accountability to their people, with no rules, dividing power among themselves. So when you say coalition government to the United States of America, after having such extraordinary sacrifices in the first round -- we lost 50 of our soldiers and marines defending the first round -- that’s not the principle of the rule of law.
No, we would not, of course, want to go back to 1992, which is a step backward. We’re interested in going forward -- going forward, committed to the rules.
Tolo TV: Thank you.
The U.S. general in Afghanistan, General McChrystal, asked the U.S. government to send more troops to Afghanistan to make the Afghan election more secure. Also, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates also mentioned in his interview with the media that Mr. Obama should send troops before the 7th of November.
What’s your point of view? Do you think the Obama administration will send troops to Afghanistan before 7th of November?
Ambassador Eikenberry: Currently within Washington, D.C., but within NATO capitals as well, there is a debate right now about how we should implement President Obama’s strategy, or combined strategy, that the President announced in March of this year. The first one.
That strategy has many dimensions to it. It has a governance dimension, it has a reconstruction and development dimension, it has a diplomacy dimension. It also has a military dimension. The military dimension is the most visible -- and, of course, within the United States it’s politically the most talked about -- issue because the decision to send sons and daughters of the United States to come to Afghanistan to serve and go into harm’s way as we speak, in defense of Afghan development and to secure the Afghan people -- that is a very sensitive issue politically.
So the President right now is reviewing the implementation of our strategy. He has not yet made decisions about the military component, nor the broader components. We would expect that decision to be made if not in weeks then certainly within the next several months.
The second point is, with regard to that decision, is that that decision of course is a collaborative, ultimately a collaborative position, part of a collaborative strategy. So our NATO allies are involved in this, and ultimately the next administration of Afghanistan will be very involved in collaboration in terms of reaching of that decision.
Tolo TV: According to the media, the Taliban has said they will not allow people to go and cast their votes. So how much you are also concerned about the security issues during the election?
Ambassador Eikenberry: Security will always remain a concern, Kakar. There are parts of Afghanistan right now where there is indeed great insecurity. We know this in parts of Southern Afghanistan, parts of Eastern Afghanistan -- districts, not provinces. There are difficult challenges in certain districts in the Northwest and the Northeast, in Kunduz. I know that General Stan McChrystal, whom I’ve spoken to, is making all-out efforts with NATO ISAF to provide the best security possible -- in partnership of course with your Ministry of Defense and your Ministry of the Interior.
There will not be perfect security everywhere across Afghanistan, but there’s an all-out effort to secure as many districts and as many polling stations as possible.
Tolo TV: Mr. Abdullah, during his press conference today, and also before, he mentioned that if the government did not accept his conditions he would not participate in a second runoff election. So what do you think? If he does not participate in the election, what would be happening?
Ambassador Eikenberry: I wouldn’t want to speculate. Again, I’m not aware of the specifics of his press conference. Once again, though, I’ll make the point, Kakar, is that Afghanistan has come so far over the last three months, and we have two principles I think as we move forward with absolute determination by the international community, absolute determination by the United States of America, to help create the best conditions for a successful election on the 7th of November. Those two principles are: let’s make sure that we have the best standards, achieve the best standards possible for that election; and the other principle, don’t run against the process.
Tolo TV: What would be your advice to both of these two candidates, Mr. Karzai and Mr. Abdullah?
Ambassador Eikenberry: As the United States Ambassador, I would never give advice to candidates in Afghanistan’s politics.
Tolo TV: Thank you very much, sir.
Ambassador Eikenberry: Thank you.
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